03/31/1999 05:35 PM House WTR

HJR 27 - ALASKA/RUSSIA MARITIME BOUNDARY                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Contains discussion of HJR 26]                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1092                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR BARNES announced that the next order of business would be                                                                 
House Joint Resolution No. 27, relating to the maritime boundary                                                                
between Alaska and the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.                                                              
She asked that Mr. Olson and Mr. Seidenberg share their expertise                                                               
on information pertinent to HJR 27, rather than having                                                                          
Representative Coghill, sponsor, give opening comments.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1168                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CARL OLSON, Chairman, State Department Watch, testified via                                                                     
teleconference from California.  He emphasized that negotiations of                                                             
a maritime boundary between the United States and Russia impinge                                                                
upon Alaska in many different areas.  He said these negotiations                                                                
are important to Alaska with respect to sovereignty, boundaries,                                                                
and its own property.  He related that the United States Department                                                             
of State is responsible for negotiating these kinds of executive                                                                
agreements.  It is, at this point, only an executive agreement, not                                                             
a treaty, as it has never been ratified by the Russian side.  It                                                                
can easily be modified, rescinded, or amended, for example.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. OLSON explained that approximately a year and a half ago, the                                                               
Russians were discontent with "how much they already got out of the                                                             
State Department, and they'd been demanding to get additional                                                                   
seabed rights - I think it's about 40,000 (indisc.--simult.                                                                     
speech).  He indicated that the Russians now would like the                                                                     
maritime boundary to be moved closer to Alaska in order to obtain                                                               
an additional 300 million pounds of fish per year from the Bering                                                               
Sea.  He said unfortunately the State Department is very                                                                        
accommodating about having discussions over this kind of                                                                        
relinquishment, which is being conducted by Thomas Pickering, Under                                                             
Secretary for Political Affairs.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. OLSON told members, "You can't take away territory from a state                                                             
without the consent of the state."  He said he doubts that in                                                                   
Alaska there would have to be input, participation or hearings on                                                               
this issue, let alone hearing from the rest of the American public,                                                             
which is very much impacted by it.  The resolution is another                                                                   
impetus to get this out in the open and get the rights of Alaskans                                                              
and the American public initiated in here.  He believes this issue                                                              
is therefore even more critical than it was a year before.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS, acting as chair, thanked Mr. Olson for his                                                             
comments and asked if members had any additional questions.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1319                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ noted Mr. Olson's article in Orbis,                                                                    
contained in committee packets, then said he has questions about                                                                
the strength of American assertions of sovereignty in the [Russian]                                                             
Arctic.  He said as he understands it, discovery must be followed                                                               
by effective occupation.  He stated, "I don't know what sort of                                                                 
effective occupation we've exerted over some of these islands in                                                                
recent years, or continuing assertions of sovereignty."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1401                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MARK SEIDENBERG, Vice-Chairman, State Department Watch, testified                                                               
again via teleconference from Seattle, Washington.  He explained:                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Basically, you have to look at the Organic Act of 1884.  The                                                               
     Organic Act of 1884 includes two forms of territory, one which                                                             
     was included in the 1867 Convention of Washington, which was                                                               
     Russia's (indisc.) to the United States, which is this little                                                              
     area in what's main Alaska, and some of the islands - not all                                                              
     of them.  And then the other territory that was included in                                                                
     the 1994 Organic Act was that territory known as Alaska.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     The practice was that during the Treasury Department phase for                                                             
     administrating Alaska, from 1877 to 1884, they would put in                                                                
     ... their files everything that was added to Alaska.  And                                                                  
     those were transferred to the Interior Department in 1884,                                                                 
     pursuant to the ... 1884 Organic Act.  Wrangell Islands, which                                                             
     was the largest of the group, for an example, ... was                                                                      
     "American discoveried" - the Russians never knew about it.                                                                 
     Then, in 1881, Calvin Hooper (ph), who was the de facto                                                                    
     governor of Alaska, went there and annexed it.  Then, in                                                                   
     complying with the requirements at that time, occupation was                                                               
     considered effective, because they included it in Alaska, and                                                              
     then the ... U.S. government started issuing publications,                                                                 
     starting from before the turn of the century, and then as late                                                             
     as 1977, on ... U.S. Department of Interior documents,                                                                     
     including within the state.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. SEIDENBERG offered to go into a longer history, about the U.S.                                                              
Navy's survey of it in the 1930s.  He also offered to send                                                                      
Representative Berkowitz a copy of a journal article he wrote for                                                               
"Muskox" (ph) at the University of Saskatchewan on the subject.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1538                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if there were any year-round residents                                                               
on the islands being discussed.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. SEIDENBERG responded that Wrangell Island has year-round                                                                    
residents, but all the other islands are deserted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked how many people reside on Wrangell                                                                
Island.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. SEIDENBERG estimated from his last visit to Wrangell Island, in                                                             
1995, that 150 people resided there, although that might have                                                                   
changed.  At that time, Russia maintained approximately 18 troops                                                               
there, including 17 enlisted troops and one lieutenant, although                                                                
they had been talking about moving the military off the island                                                                  
altogether.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RYNNIEVA MOSS, Legislative Assistant to Representative John                                                                     
Coghill, Jr., Alaska State Legislature, informed members that                                                                   
Representative Coghill would like to make a technical amendment to                                                              
HJR 27, changing the spelling of "Wrangel Island" to "Wrangell                                                                  
Island", as he had received information that the latter spelling is                                                             
preferred.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to adopt the technical                                                                       
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked if there was any objection to the                                                                 
amendment, which would change the spelling throughout HJR 27.                                                                   
There being no objection, she stated that a committee substitute                                                                
would be ordered for HJR 27.  She asked whether there were further                                                              
questions or testimony.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1647                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to move HJR 27 [as amended] from                                                             
committee with individual recommendations.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1662                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ objected for a brief discussion.  He                                                                   
pointed out that the tone of HJR 26 is more statesmanlike than that                                                             
of HJR 27, which seems to have an angry tone.  He recommended that                                                              
HJR 27 be given a more diplomatic tone in keeping with the                                                                      
respectful relationship with the federal government.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN concurred.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS asked Representative Berkowitz to bring any suggestions to                                                             
the sponsor's office.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked whether there was any objection to                                                                
moving the resolution from the committee.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE informed Mr. Seidenberg that he looked forward                                                             
to receiving the information from him.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. SEIDENBERG specified that he would be glad to send the                                                                      
information on the oral histories of the Eskimo residents of                                                                    
Wrangell Island.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS thanked participants for their time.  She                                                               
then noted that CSHJR 27(WTR) was moved from the House Special                                                                  
Committee on World Trade and State/Federal Relations without any                                                                
objection.